nevertheles its importand to keep in mind what exactly is going on there (abrasive plastic media, loss of most of cutting ability during the first few strokes etc.). Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. Dr. Thomas you spoke of using a different media for cutting test and I have some extra veg tan leather and was wondering what are the parameters of the leather you need? The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. HA! The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). 14c28n vs D2 Steel. The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. A hunting knife has a singlepurpose: processing meat after akill. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. And a label: AEB-L. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. I was the heat treater, but after HT to only 58-59 hardness the blades went to the surface grinders for finishing and I remember them going into the packing boxes with mirror polished edges. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ If you purchase this types of knife, without any hassle you can easily re-sharpening. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. Yes its very easy to sharpen but it doesnt hold an edge at all. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. Your email address will not be published. D2 steel is a ordinary tool steel and knife steel. In general, higher carbon steels have higher edge retention but lower toughness. also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. Approximately the same hardness, yes. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. The claim is that they align the blades edge, pushing any slightly rolled over bits back into place and thus preserving the cutting ability of the knife for longer. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1 To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. 14C28N D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. In all of the cases above, properties are greatly controlled by carbides. 1. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. The D2 knife blade offers high edge retention and wear resistance. However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. But to learn more about these and other attributes, read our related outdoor knife buyers guide. Anybody know how the Sandvik stacks up against all these other steels. CRKT and Spyderco use BD1. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. AR-RPM9 A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. Steels like CPM MagnaCut, CPM M4, CPM 4V, and CPM CruWear fit in this category. 2. This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. But if when youre searching for tough steel for your outdoor experience camping, or hunting, it would be perfect steel but not the best choice therere other steels with better than toughness that would suit your usage. in the correct place for the stainless-toughness-edge-retention graphic? The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? 20? Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. Micarta There are a few other complicating factors such as carbon in solution and plate martensite, especially in low alloy steels such as described in this article. There is no such thing as a steel that is a 10 in both toughness and edge retention. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. SPY27 Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. On the other hand small but mighty, the pocket knife provides both in professional performance and in arresting good looks. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. Below shows the results of MagnaCut testing vs other steels where it is labeled as New Steel.. . In real life, would you expect any presumed increase in deviation from the specified formula, as well as the effects of said deviation, to negatively impact the performance of 8Cr13MoV to any truly noticeable degree? Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. Hi Larrin, thanks so much for writing this blog and putting so much reliable information into such an accessible form. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. 14C28N is essentially AEB-L (or perhaps more accurately Sandvik 13C26), but with improved corrosion resistance. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. D2. Its hard to say. Are you looking for 14c28n steel with other steel? I also added a few more steels in this study. It is a Sandvik stainless steel that originally developed for razor blades. Both knives were chopped through a nail. Deburring of edges often takes even longer than removing material to produce the edge. Is that regression line (or other trend line?) D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? Steels that can be high in edge retention and toughness are desirable for general use knives. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. Hi there, Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. I was struggling to simplify all the Rockwell/Youngs Modulus stuff for readers when I came across your site. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. Though the volume of carbonitrides in the steel is relatively high. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. Thank you for such a great article! The performance of these blades are equally admirable. Check out theGiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife at $99, for example. I will be focusing on CATRA edge retention which measures abrasive wear of knives. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. If you want for best steel 14c28n and others steel then you can ready 14c28n vs 420hc review. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: Oftentimes steels that are reported to be difficult to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. VG-10 steel also has the same level of toughness as 14C28N and the same level of corrosion resistance. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. For high wear resistance and edge retention you want a large amount of hard carbides. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. No idea. Below shows Vanax tempered at 400F on the left and 1000F on the right after 1% saltwater for 24 hours: There are many other ways in which knife steel performance can be reduced through heat treatment but I cant cover them all in this article so hopefully these illustrative examples will be enough. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. Looks like there is no reason to us it over 420HC. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. But keep in mind that no steel is perfect for everything. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. All of the experiments shown below are possible thanks to supporters. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. All rights reserved. But which? 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. How do its properties compare to other steels? You need a hard medium to sharpen it like diamond or boride. Let the job at hand be your guide. Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. s30v Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. Several factors arent related to the steel you choose but seriously affect the nature of your knifes performance. If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. All three of these steels havechromium, molybdenum, vanadium, and tungsten components and will perform well in myriad tasks. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. But yes, I would assume that the general performance would still be relatively similar between them without evidence to the contrary. D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. Another common heat treating choice that is not even categorized as a mistake is tempering in the high temperature regime (~1000F) rather than the low temperature regime (~400F). The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. Carpenter produces this powder steel. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. 14c28n has less carbon and chromium as compared to 9Cr steel. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. quite possibly the best steel youll find on a sub-$30 production knife. I also have meat cleaver 1,4116 ,58RC that I order and was looking up if its a good steel or did waist money and need to return it. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. I see tables that compare Toughness,Edge Retention,Corrosion Resistance. are after the ratings. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. : at a given toughness, magncut will have better edge retention in real life applications than s90v if it has optimal geometry (or maybe it wouldnt, just an example). 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in. In general, higher carbon and higher vanadium steels have higher wear resistance and edge retention but lower toughness. 14C28N. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Ease of Sharpening: One advantage of 8Cr13MoV is that it is easier to sharpen than D2 steel. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. Sure if you dont want stainless steel fine, but there are plenty other carbon steels out there much better than 5160. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. Compared to the AUS10A, the D2 has a longer legacy since it's been around since 1918. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. Below shows charts summarizing tests of different steels for the major categories discussed so far, low alloy steels, high alloy non-stainless steels, and stainless steels. They make excellent everyday carry steels, especially for light- and medium-duty tasks. This is a very important factor when selecting a steel for your knife blade, especially if you plan on spending a lot of time outdoors in an area with high humidity.. S30v is a higher ranked steel and considered a true Stainless Steel, with a 14% . AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. Vancron would work well in a kitchen knife. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. Nitro V is also significantly cheaper than many other steels with this level of performance. AEB-L and 14C28N also have moderate edge retention though of course much lower than vanadium-alloyed powder metallurgy steels like S30V or M390. Thanks to powder metallurgy, youll find even better edge retention on the high end. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. Read more. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters! Distilled water can separate steels that are stainless vs those that are not. Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. Combination of knife steel properties. However, this edge retention comes at the cost of sharpening ease for D2. Very much appreciate you. It rusts like nothing Ive seen before and it dull just by looking at it. SUS410 Its an update of its 12C27 and 13C26 steels, which were developed for use in shaving razors. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. i understand the samples were treated in the same way. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. You cant look at only the chromium content of the steel to know the level of corrosion resistance. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. Among Vancron SuperClean, Agomi #1 and Shirogami #1, Which one tends to have finer grain size and Sharper edge? These images are taken from my book Knife Engineering. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast.